Bobbin Material - Tell me more...

[ExplorersRock]

I've been noticing a few comments made about different materials for bobbins. I am curious about the effects, personal preferences, and any knowledge that anyone would be willing to share on the subject. I am particularly curious about the tonal properties of butyrate, nylon, and glass-filled nylon bobbins. Can anyone share some information on this topic? I would relish the opportunity to learn more about it.

P.S. Frank, if you have a second to stop and comment, I would greatly appreciate anything you would have to say regarding this topic.

[LesStrat]

I've used metal and plastic. I have not noticed much difference in performance.

Performance tends to be determined more by correctly winding the thread and keeping the feeding lines clean and clear.

Cheaper sewing machines are especially sensitive to minor variations.

[lreese]

Cheaper seeing machines are especially sensitive to minor variations.

Yeah - I can imagine those can get kinda blurry.

Are the bobbins all of a standard dimension. I could imagine if the wire were slightly closer/fruther from the pole pieces (or the bobbin slightly taller/shorter), it would make a difference. Maybe moreso than material would.

[idsnowdog]

I don't buy that non-conductive bobbin material should make much difference.

[CTN]

I think conductive bobbin material would make a difference only insomuch as by virtue of it being conductive and part of the ground circuit, there would be some effect on the magnetic field of the pickup as well as some effect on the ground signal (not sure if that contributes to tone or not but there ya go)

[frankfalbo]

I don't buy that non-conductive bobbin material should make much difference.

Definitely not much difference. You really have to be concentrating (or run a series of totally controlled tests to define your position on the subject) to hear the difference.

Think about it like this: A capacitor contains a non-conductive material, and it changes the sound right? And if the material changes, the sound changes. The material is called the dielectric. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric

So if you want to go full nerd on it, you could look at all the places where the bobbin material could have dielectric properties (between the coil wires and the pole pieces, across the top and bottom of the coil wires, etc) and speculate that the material itself may have an effect on the distributed capacitance within the coil, and across different coil layers. But what is more likely is the softness and elasticity of the bobbin material imparts a mechanical resonance into the recipe.

In my research, (highly controlled tests) the way the bobbin sounded when you tossed it onto a table played a role in what the pickup sounded like. If it made a dull "thud" it was relatively neutral. If it had a nice "ping" sound, it was more excited and resonant. Butyrate to me was smooth and soft sounding, and that's what you hear when you wind a coil on it too.

All tests I've performed were without wax potting. It could be argued that wax potting further diminishes the effect of the bobbin material by mechanically deadening the entire assembly. Or, it could also be suggested that wax potting softens and relaxes some plastics more than others. So the pressure of the wound coil may cause a soft plastic to relax under the heat as the bobbin gives a little. A stronger, more rigid plastic may keep it's shape and pressure on the coil.

On a personal note, I like butyrate when it has to be vintage, and glass filled nylon would be my favorite for anything else. Polycarbonate is fine, but I didn't prefer nylon, and I could not find any redeeming qualities for ABS. Like literally, unless you said you wanted to make the pickup sound worse, I would stay away from ABS altogether.

[CTN]

In my research, (highly controlled tests) the way the bobbin sounded when you tossed it onto a table played a role in what the pickup sounded like. If it made a dull "thud" it was relatively neutral. If it had a nice "ping" sound, it was more excited and resonant. Butyrate to me was smooth and soft sounding, and that's what you hear when you wind a coil on it too.

That's awesome!

I wonder what sorta sounds bobbins made of common nut materials like bone or Tusq would be capable of.

[ExplorersRock]

Definitely not much difference. You really have to be concentrating (or run a series of totally controlled tests to define your position on the subject) to hear the difference.

Think about it like this: A capacitor contains a non-conductive material, and it changes the sound right? And if the material changes, the sound changes. The material is called the dielectric. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric

So if you want to go full nerd on it, you could look at all the places where the bobbin material could have dielectric properties (between the coil wires and the pole pieces, across the top and bottom of the coil wires, etc) and speculate that the material itself may have an effect on the distributed capacitance within the coil, and across different coil layers. But what is more likely is the softness and elasticity of the bobbin material imparts a mechanical resonance into the recipe.

In my research, (highly controlled tests) the way the bobbin sounded when you tossed it onto a table played a role in what the pickup sounded like. If it made a dull "thud" it was relatively neutral. If it had a nice "ping" sound, it was more excited and resonant. Butyrate to me was smooth and soft sounding, and that's what you hear when you wind a coil on it too.

All tests I've performed were without wax potting. It could be argued that wax potting further diminishes the effect of the bobbin material by mechanically deadening the entire assembly. Or, it could also be suggested that wax potting softens and relaxes some plastics more than others. So the pressure of the wound coil may cause a soft plastic to relax under the heat as the bobbin gives a little. A stronger, more rigid plastic may keep it's shape and pressure on the coil.

On a personal note, I like butyrate when it has to be vintage, and glass filled nylon would be my favorite for anything else. Polycarbonate is fine, but I didn't prefer nylon, and I could not find any redeeming qualities for ABS. Like literally, unless you said you wanted to make the pickup sound worse, I would stay away from ABS altogether.

Wow! Thanks, Frank. This is very interesting to me. I love going "full nerd" on this sort of stuff. I'm a total nerd at heart. I appreciate everyone contributing to the thread, it's fascinating.

Frank, if I may ask (without being too specific), is it the case that pickup companies like SD, DiMarzio, BKP, might vary bobbin material for a particular model? I know SD does the butyrate for Seths and Ants and glass-filled nylon for the Zephyrs. But would they say use bobbin material "A" for an SH-6 where they might use bobbin material "B" for an SH-2, and then use bobbin material "C" for an SH-15? Just using random models, I am not asking for any particulars. Just curious if companies will vary the material, or on the whole, pretty much stick to the bobbin material of choice for them and use it for 90%-95% of their line.

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That's awesome!

I wonder what sorta sounds bobbins made of common nut materials like bone or Tusq would be capable of.

Dude... Bone or Graphtech Bobbins? That would be cool! What about graphite, or that stuff that PRS uses to make their nut? Man, I am such a nerd.

[GoldenVulture]

Carbon fibre or wood ?

[LesStrat]

Do you have any graphics bs explaining this?